Links

• http://brexperts.ning.com/forum/topics/brxgaa-march-16-2010-web (BRxG event)
• http://bizrules.info/network/brxg_20100316.htm (permalink)

1. ATTENDEES , SKYPE IDs, EMAIL IDs (with everyone's permission )

• RH, Rolando Hernandez

• AW, Andrew Waterman

• LC, Lee Chisholm

• PCL, Po-Chuan Lin

• JCO, James Owen

• JT, Joel Toland,

• JE, Jerald Evans

MEETING NOTES TO PUBLISH ON BRxG.ORG

2. MEETING AGENDA

BRxG AA | March 16, 2010  |  3rd Tuesday |  7:45 PM to 9:00PM CDT (Dallas)

7:45 - 8:00 PM - Call in, connect, and join the meeting

8:00 - 8:10 PM - Introduce new members; Discuss any new issues, challenges, problems & solutions, tips & ideas

8:10 - 9:00 PM - Present today's topics & questions for the experts; Expert discussion

9:00 PM - Wrap-up and suggestions for future topics

3. QUESTIONS & TOPICS FOR DISCUSSION

ASK THE BR EXPERTS A QUESTION!

We want to hear from you - - Do you have a question you would like to ask our panel of BR experts?  Email me your questions by Friday March 12. Here are some ideas:

Q1. How do you know if this is a good candidate for a rule-based system?

Q2. ES vs. BRE?

Q3. What criteria do you use to select a BRE?

Q4. How do you estimate a rules project?

Q5. How do you know when you're done?

Q6. What is rules meta-data?

Q7. How do you get started doing rules? etc.

4. QUESTIONS SUBMITTED TO THE PANEL PRIOR TO THE CALL

1. LC

Questions for the Webex:

1) How do you estimate a rules project?

2) Is it bad practice to tie actions (db updates) directly to rules?

3) Is the ABRD a widely accepted model for rules development?  Is there any other open or proprietary frameworks out there that are more popular?

4) What is the best way to introduce the business to rules development?  IE: the initial workshop to start breaking the rules down.

Thanks,

Lee

2. AW

I'd love to hear some discussion about:

1. Logical implication (use cases, best ideas for practice).

2. Testing rules (what's the best approach? Outside classes that call into rules? Is there a rules based practice for testing?)

3. How to tell when a rulebase contains an inadequate number of rules to deal with possible conditions (in terms of firing).

4. Managing a rules manager as part of the build process (deployment, pulling updates to a shared rulebase into source code, etc.).

3. RH

Hi Lee / Andrew,

Thanks for your awesome questions. I'm looking forward to the Q/A next week and hearing what everyone has to say. I have some thoughts on estimating a rules project and methodologies that I'll share next week.

Here's another question I heard once from a large insurance company. Their question was:

- What do we (IT) do when we get the rulebook from the business?

- How do we do analysis, design, and development for rules?

Rolando

5. CALL NOTES:

6. JT
   1. Is an EA, worked with CLIPS as grad student, late 80s
   2. Are you using BR for EA?
      1. Ontology tool = Protégé

7. LC
   1. SAP tech consultant , Deloitte
   2. Winnipeg
   3. SAP implementation
   4. Implementing BRF+
      1. Business Rules Framework
   5. Rules work in the summer
   6. 2 yrs
   7. SAP is the vendor
      1. BRM - built for Java
      2. BRF+ -

8. AW
   1. Chiapas, MX
   2. Games for participatory modeling
   3. DROOLS as rules engine to run the games
   4. Interested in rules

9. JE
   1. ATL/GA, ex Dallas born and raised
   2. Ex PepsiCo Frito-Lay in DFW
   3. Today in dental practice SW
   4. Will launch GA in 4q 2010
      1. In a few offices  in ATL/GA
      2. 4,000 offices

10. Mark
11. PCL
    1. Java programmer
    2. Beginner
    3. DROOLS

12. JCO
    1. Now back with previous employer, 1998-1999

13. ABOUT YASU TECH
    1. SAP bought them
    2. Indian based company, SAP bought them
    3. Java technology
    4. SAP has core apps in ABAP
       1. Their proprietary language
       2. BUILT BRE FOR
          1. BRF+
    5. + a Java language
       1. BOUGHT YASU, RENAMED IT TO BRM
       2. Trying to integrate BRM to their BPM

14. JCO
    1. Pega bought CHORDIANT TODAY on 3/16/2010

15. JE
    1. This is good news
    2. APRIL 19… MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS
       1. DROOLS BOOTCAMP
    3. Jboss.org/drools

16. JCO
    1. That means something of value there
    2. …

17. OTHER INDISDER SCOOPS
18. RulesFest2010 will be in San Jose, CA
    1. The week before BR Forum
    2. Not competitive to BRF

19. JE
    1. Folks who attended ORF vs BRF
    2. ORF
       1. Engineering
       2. All techie all the time
    3. BRF
       1. Marketing
    4. CHR constraint handling rules conference, Scotland
    5. He's going to the big dental conference of the yr, in West Coast later in April(?)

20. AW
    1. Interested in the work of Dr. Rick Hicks
       1. About rules completeness

21. JCO
    1. About Rick Hicks
    2. See book , Expert Systems, on rule completeness, Dr. Hicks
    3. Completeness
       1. If every formula can be proven or refuted

22. RULES
23. SAP in Canada
24. LC's PROJECT IN CANADA
    1. Deloitte
    2. Andrew Pau
    3. THE RULES STUFF WONT BE HAPPENING TILL summer 2010
    4. ORACLE
       1. BC DELAYING
    5. SAP BRF
    6. SAP BRM
    7. Student Loan solution
       1. Million rules, to fill out the application
       2. Using SAP rules

25. Question for LC on how rules integrate into solution he's building w SAP
    1. Jerald
       1. The question is… How do they handle
          1. Rules collisions….  handled by conflict resolution strategy
       2. Inferencing
          1. Forward chaining?
          2. And/or Backward?

26. SAP
    1. ABAP
       1. Engine was written in ABAP
       2. More for back-end use
       3. BRFPLUS
    2. Java
       1. BRM
       2. YASU ,more a front end product,

27. JT
    1. Big new thing is rules in the cloud
    2. SOME BUSINESS RULES = SECRET SAUCE
    3. PRIVATE CLOUD

28. JE
    1. AMR
       1. AA
       2. Eagle
       3. Cargo
    2. BR APPLIED TO EA
    3. BRE IN THE COUD

29. PCL
    1. Looking for more tutorials for beginners
    2. Tons of tutorial projects

30. JE
    1. Drools can get complicated for someone getting started
    2. Follow this path:
       1. EXPERT
          1. Pure rule BRE
       2. WORKFLOW engine
          1. Some people find it easier to get started with Flow
          2. Not dealing with SALIENCE
             1. JAMES IS THE THE GURU ON SALIENCE
                1. IS THE SAME AS PRIORITY
                2. IF 25 RULES
                   1. SALIENCE 15
                   2. SALIENCE 10
                   3. SALEIENXE 0
                3. CONFLICT RESOLUTION STRATEGY
          3. DROOLS

31. JCO
    1. CONFLICT RESOLUTION STRATEGY
       1. SALIENCE FOR CONFLICT RESOLUTION - DROOLS
       1. SEQUENCE YOU DO THE RULES IN
    2. PATTERN-DIRECTED INFERENCE SYSTEMS
       1. Dr. Forgy
    3. How does engine select the next rule

32. JE
    1. Sample rules in his app
       1. If BCBS, do you want to submit claim as X not Y

33. About GLOBAL RULES in rule based app
    1. FOR AN EXISTING KB, ITS TOUGH TO MAINTAIN

34. BIG LOTS
    1. HAD 4,000 RULES
    2. MIGRATING FROM 1 BR TO ANOTHER
    3. IT WAS JST EASIER TO REWRITE EVERUTHING

35. JE
    1. TAKES LONGER TO MAINTAIN RB
    2. THAN TO REWRITE THE RULES

36. Discussed the issue of
    1. MAINTAINING FEWER GLOBAL RULES
    2. Vs DEVELOPING MORE DUPLICATE RULES

37. WRAP
    1. PUBLISH EVERYONE'S EMAILS AND SKYPE IDs (to attendees only)